The more I see, the more I don't believe an aircraft hit the Pentagon.
- Thread starter JuggerNaught
- Start date
Walking_Man
Veteran X
JuggerNaught said:
A small aircraft wouldn't do much better than a Global Hawk.
Like i said, everyone is given information that goes against everything they've been spoonfed for the last couple years, so OBVIOUSLY it must be some freak tinfoil hat bullshit...not like their government would ever lie to them or anything
JuggerNaught said:
I have not yet completed my Engineering degree here at school, so I am not anywhere near qualified to analyze this sort of thing, but I can tell you from what I have learned that I believe it to be unlikely that it was a small body that created that sort of damage. It would take something pretty big to create that sort of damage to the structure of the pentagon.
If anything, from a physics standpoint it is LESS likely that a small craft hit the pentagon, and I would pretty much rule out the missle.
Quiksilver
Veteran X
JuggerNaught said:
Sayings something happened this way based on the fact you believe the government lies to you means bullshit.
Nobody gives a shit unless you have proof now let this fucking piece of shit thread die.
Bounty said:
I dunno Bounty... its just... weird?
Like, the plane went in to a fireball. The building burned. The rubble was the longest burning non-natural fire in history.
I find it hard to believe a tiny piece of paper survived...
I also find it hard to believe that in the probably billions of pieces of paper inside the WTC... and the trillions of pieces of rubble, they managed to find a passport and recognize it as that of a hijacker.
I've seen housefires bounty... in the heat of a housefire, which is less than what was at the WTC, things are charred beyond recognition.
Quiksilver273 said:
the proof is looking at you in the pictures...
here, let me connect the dots for you sunshine
look at the pics of that hole, we know the pentagon is 77 feet tall. We can estimate from pictures that the hole was about 60 feet wide, and the building is about 60-65 feet deep...still with me?
We know the 757 is 124 feet from wingtip to wingtip and 155 feet from nose to tail and was said to be travelling at 503 mph on impact
So answer these questions:
How does this aircraft weighing 80tons, hit a building with enough force to crumple 155 feet of aluminum, airframe, passengers, luggage, including wings and engines that people are saying were sheared off then pulled into the hole to be burned up..into a hole in a building approx. 65 feet deep....and yet doesnt go through the back wall into the next ring just a few feet away
How does a pilot trained on a cessna, who by his instructors reports had no flying skill whatsoever bring a commercial passenger jet that large, moving that fast in at about 15 feet off the ground, so the grounds isnt burned or scarred and the building catches all the debris that would have been slung over the top on impact.
Uncle Silas
Veteran X
GreasyBoy said:I didn’t read the thread so if this has been addressed, forgive me. And also I just blasted through this shooting from the hip based on what I know and will clarify anything I missed or anything that isn’t clear.
I spent almost 10 years of my life around commercial and corporate aircraft, fueling everything from a Cessna 150 to the Concorde, I’ve been a private pilot for over 11 years, and I can tell you that all arguments I have read and seen are made by those who simply do not understand anything about commercial aircraft outside of “you pay money, you get on em, you land in another town, and they sure are big.”
People assume that aircraft are these hulking, solid hunks of iron hurling through the sky. When in fact they are rather delicate pieces of machinery that are for all intensive purposes a big empty shell. Consistently people ask where the wings are? The wings are in a billion pieces around and in the Pentagon. And many of those pieces either burned up, melted, or were simply too small to be identifiable as part of the aircraft.
It is important that you understand that many parts on an aircraft are made from a magnesium alloys. Magnesium does burn and it burns hot. If you’ve ever wondered why they use foam on aircraft fires instead of water, now you know. Throw water on burning magnesium and see what happens. (Please stand way back first…actually, don’t try this at all)
I’ve watched a video about “the missing 757” and they spoke of the BTU’s that JP-8 generates. Well, I hate to tell them this but JP-8 is a military fuel and commercial aircraft in the US burn a grade called Jet-A. It nearly impossible to ignite, is extraordinarily oily, and weighs about 6.7 pounds per US gallon. When burning uncontrolled it has a tendency to evaporate a fair portion of the source due to the heat, and burns very black due to its oily properties.
The 757 carries anywhere from 14,500 to 15,500 pound of it in each wing depending on the fuel density which can vary from 6.55 to 6.9 pounds. That’s roughly 2,150 gallons in each wing, and the aircraft has a center tank in the fuselage which carries around 26,500 pounds of fuel. (4,000 gallons) Assuming the aircraft was topped off (around 8,000 gallons) you need to now figure out where that fuel went.
Again this is easy. If you’ve ever seen a fuel delivery being made at your local station, that tanker truck is probably carrying around 8,000 gallons. Now you have an idea of what 8,000 gallons of fuel looks like, compare that divided into 2/2000 gallon portions and 1/4000 gallon portion slamming into the side of the Pentagon @ 400+ mph. Review the animated gif captured by the security camera and your question is answered.
You can easily see the fluidity of the fireball in the first few frames, and by the amount of smoke that is generated very quickly, that the impact misted much of the fuel and it flash burned. The black marks all along the side of the building are more proof that Jet-A has been burning there.
I also submit the picture below which is a frame from the animated gif that the Pentagon security camera filmed, and you can clearly see the aircraft and the AA insignia on the vertical stabilizer.
Some computer generated models that show what happened to the plane can be found in the links below. There are some really good renders that show where the wings went, and why the aircraft came apart as it did.
http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/phase1/
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/cgvlab/projects/popescu/pentagonVis.htm
Holy shit you just owned this thread. Thank you!
Juggs, read this ^^^^^
theres a flash video on this i saw
cant remember where.
cant remember where.
Uncle Silas
Veteran X
untouchable said:
It's been posted 48 times in this thread. It's probably what got the rusty wheels in Juggs brain turning.
Uncle Silas said:
ok...lets look at what he posted
image from the purdue test
notice the plane coming in low enough that the engines are on the ground
this picture is taken from about the same angle the plane would have entered on....see any skidmarks from the plane's engines?
also something interesting nobody seems to notice
notice the date and time?
the reason so much of plane in the pentagon burned up vs the many parts of the PA plane remaining is that fires in small confined spaces are much hotter, because theres no place for the hot gases from the fire to move out from, all the fuel (and by fuel I mean jet fuel AND combustible materials) are in a tight space.
when a plane crashes in a field, theres plenty of space for the plane to shatter apart and not completely burn up altogether.
when a plane crashes in a field, theres plenty of space for the plane to shatter apart and not completely burn up altogether.
Greasyboy, main reasons they use foam is on the fuel itself, since throwing water at it will just push the burning jet fuel around, instead of putting it out.
When the foam lands on the fuel, it seperates the fuel source from the oxygen, snuffing it out (For a fire you need a fuel source, heat and oxygen).
When the foam lands on the fuel, it seperates the fuel source from the oxygen, snuffing it out (For a fire you need a fuel source, heat and oxygen).
Jugg,
The wings were probably destroyed instantly upon impact. The majority of the fuel is located in the wings. Imagine holding a really powerful bomb in the closed palm of your hand, when that bomb explodes where the Hell is your thumb going to be? Probably in a million pieces across your desk.
As for the aiplane coming to rest inside the building, well, that has a lot to do with mechanics and the physics of the crash. GreasyBoy addressed a great deal of it in detail, and the link he provided to the Purdue University has some really neat simulations that were run on several supercomputers that show how the plane deformed and came to rest in the building. It's not a cooky internet website, but if you really are interested in this dynamics behind the crash they have all sorts of neat information.
As for the pilot, I don't know, and neither do you. Perhaps he just got lucky.
The wings were probably destroyed instantly upon impact. The majority of the fuel is located in the wings. Imagine holding a really powerful bomb in the closed palm of your hand, when that bomb explodes where the Hell is your thumb going to be? Probably in a million pieces across your desk.
As for the aiplane coming to rest inside the building, well, that has a lot to do with mechanics and the physics of the crash. GreasyBoy addressed a great deal of it in detail, and the link he provided to the Purdue University has some really neat simulations that were run on several supercomputers that show how the plane deformed and came to rest in the building. It's not a cooky internet website, but if you really are interested in this dynamics behind the crash they have all sorts of neat information.
As for the pilot, I don't know, and neither do you. Perhaps he just got lucky.
james said:
Take into consideration that shit goes flying everywhere, and not everything gets touched by a fire.
A house doesn't move at a velocity of 230 mph, or break apart during turbulence while plummeting from 10,000+ feet.
With regard to the Pentagon crash, the passports and other recovered documents and artifacts probably survived because the persons carrying them were thrown forward of the area, or they were shielded by a briefcase or whathaveyou. (I can't say for sure, I wasn't in the wreckage searching for anything.)
Regardless, it's very common for things like that to be recovered at crash sites. You can't compare it to a fire on a stationary object.
Do some research into it, with regards to previous crashes, and you'll see what I mean.